Josh Niland on cooking with fish sperm and serving up trout head Christmas pudding

Your book ‘The Whole Fish’ has been called groundbreaking – did you expect such a positive reaction?

Not at all, I knew there was some interest in our work based on the photos that I put on my Instagram, but I didn’t have any clue that it would be received with such enthusiasm so broadly. To meet people throughout Australia, UK and America recently and hear them speaking so positively about the book still gives me goosebumps.

Where did you learn to use fish so creatively?

For me I had excellent training from my mentors, Joe Pavlovich, Peter Doyle and Stephen Hodges, which meant I had a sound understanding of meat proteins as well as fish, pastry, cold larder and the vegetable stations of the kitchen.

Anatomically speaking fish share a very similar make up to some land animals and often these cuts and thoughts about fish as meat have been born out of observation and curiosity. Having a sound understanding of the basics allows you to become very expressive and creative.

You try to use as much of the fish as possible – what’s the most extreme example?

There has been everything from fish blood pudding, milt mortadella, fish fat caramel ans most recently a fish head Christmas pudding where we have cleaned out a coral trout head and filled the cavity with Christmas pudding then steamed it. Shocking I know, but incredibly delicious and I understand these words won’t bring anyone much comfort but until you try it you’ll never know!

What was it like working for Heston Blumenthal at his Fat Duck restaurant?

Heston is a truly brilliant man that is functioning on a different level and every second in the kitchen with him was extraordinary. I’m very grateful to have been there even if it was only briefly.

What is it about cooking with fish that you find so attractive?

In the western world I feel we only see a fish as two fillets or something we bake whole in the oven with some lemon in the cavity. I was attracted to fish because my training had veered more towards fish out of finding joy in handling and cooking it.

Fish has been fairly creatively untouched for a very long time beyond a cycle of ever changing garnishes that sit beneath or on top of a fillet. I hope to inspire and encourage a broad network of chefs and domestic cooks to look at fish differently.

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You have a restaurant Saint Peter and fishmonger Fish Butchery in Sydney – what was the reaction when they first opened?

The industry was extremely excited for me and I think broadly speaking the locals were happy to have both a fish restaurant and a fish shop of quality at their doorstep. Obviously doing some of the more unique things like dry ageing, offal utilisation and never washing a fish under a tap raised eye brows but also struck some interesting opinions.

We have a very loyal following and I’m so grateful to all our customers, staff and the media for shining a light on our little restaurant with affection and a broad mind.

You don’t serve farmed fish at your restaurant – why is that?

Not entirely true as we do have Murray cod from Murray Gold on the menu from time to time as it’s a delicious fish. I think I’m a bit of a romantic when it comes to celebrating seasonality and that’s what a wild fish really offers as opposed to the year round availability of some farmed fish.

There are certain nuances in wild fish that just can’t be replicated. There is absolutely a place for farmed fish and it is so important that we invest time effort and resources into making aquaculture even better

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What’s the easiest way for them to start using a whole fish?

Be brave, ask questions when purchasing fish so you leave with a little confidence that you will have a good experience at home. Fish like John Dory, flounder and some other flat-fish species are wonderful fish that don’t have pin bones, meaning less inconvenient to eat. Part of the discomfort in eating a whole fish is there are “too many bones”. But to use the above fish you will benefit from the glorious flavour of the bone and be uninterrupted by small bones when eating.

You use weights to cook fish – can you explain why?

We designed a 1.7kg stainless steel fish weight to aid in transferring heat through fish in a pan. The reason we do this is firstly to get a very even crisp skin on the fillet. Secondly as heat rises through the skin and up the fillet, the heat is then trapped on the disc of stainless steel allowing the warmth to gently set the top of the fillet.

By being able to cook a portion of fish in a pan on the stove and not use the oven is more desired for me as the flesh remains silky, delicate and never gets to the texture of over cooked chicken. Basically it’s a more efficient way to cook fish.

You recommend taking fish scales off with a knife rather than a fish scaler, why is that?

To avoid bruising the fillet through vigorously dragging as I like to call it a “bear trap on a stick” over what is a very soft protein.

You are cutting off the membrane that holds the scale in place, and that membrane is home to quite a lot of moisture and if it can be taken off we then have the opportunity to condition the skin of the fish and begin to dry it slightly. Because ultimately how do you make wet fish skin crunchy?

What is the hardest cut to make appealing to customers?

Fish sperm is obviously a hurdle for a lot of customers but in recent years we have made it into a mortadella sausage which improves the flavour and texture dramatically.

You’re 30 and run two businesses and already have a book out – how have you managed so much in so little time?

My wife, that’s my answer...without her there would be nothing. This interview should really be about her and how bloody brilliant she is.

What are your top tips for keeping fish fresh?

Don’t wash your fish under the tap at any time and don’t store fish directly on ice. I promise that by adopting these ideas you will gain days, weeks more shelf life on various species of fish.

Because, who has ever walked into a meat butcher any where in the world and bought a sirloin steak that has been washed under a tap and then set over ice and sold on a wet bar? It’s not a consideration! Maybe if it was we’d refer to spoiled beef as beefy beef like we do with fish referred to as fishy fish.

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What’s your favourite way to eat fish at the moment?

Butterflied so the surface area of skin is very broad, oiled lightly then seasoned with flake salt. Grilled over charcoal or as simply as setting an oven to the grill setting and getting a wonderful pork crackling-esque finish.

Why do you think chefs are less creative with fish than they are with meat?

Fish is a very expensive commodity that requires a lot of labour to do very well. A perception of short shelf life and it being highly fragile often at times puts fish into the too hard basket. In saying that though, Tom Brown, Nathan Outlaw and Angel Leon are raising the bar and setting the standard for fish globally.

You’ve become extremely innovative with how you use fish, taking inspiration from meat dishes, such as salmon wellington and swordfish bacon – how long did it take you to master these?

I’ve been very fortunate to surround myself with like minded people like Paul Farag and Todd Garratt that share my same enthusiasm for thinking creatively. It’s not as complicated as it looks if you understand the basics of cookery, whether it’s meat fish vegetables or pastry. All those techniques can naturally be pushed together or act as inspiration for the birth of a new dish.

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What’s your first memory of eating fish?

Eating mullet that my mum and I caught out of the Hunter River which was about a 15 minute drive from where I grew up. Dusted in flour, pan fried simply and drowned in lemon juice hah!

What will you be serving for Christmas dinner?

Most likely it will be a traditional ham as well as one of our cobia hams from the fish butchery. That as well as all the familiar favourites; beautiful stone fruits, mangoes, cherries, tomatoes, Christmas pudding and hopefully I’ll get a chance to eat a steak over the holidays!

‘The Whole Fish’ by Josh Niland is published by Hardie Grant and is out now