Why Chelsea is Southgate's great regret

Having stood alongside Alpay Ozalan at the heart of Aston Villa's defence and followed Turkey's emergence as a serious force with considerable admiration, Gareth Southgate would like nothing better than to retain his place against the Group Seven favourites at Sunderland on Wednesday – whether or not Sol Campbell is fit to return. Old Father Time, the relentless man-marker, is stalking him, and at 32 the Middlesbrough defender has been forced to confront the displeasing possibility that he might soon become one of yesterday's men rather than one of tomorrow's people.

Wandering down to breakfast at England's hotel or gazing round the training pitch over the past week, Southgate must sometimes have wondered whether he has been mistakenly directed to the Under-21 group. Wayne Rooney, Jermaine Jenas, John Terry – fresh faces, in every sense, since his previous involvement, for the double-header against Slovakia and Macedonia last autumn. "It's amazing, even from the last game. It's just getting younger and younger,'' he mused.

But in noting the quieter role younger players are inclined to take, he insists convincingly on the need for a leavening of experience in any dressing room, with senior figures prepared to say their piece. Eloquent and educated, Southgate is well qualified to do that, and an hour's conversation with him at the back end of last week was a stimulating experience.

It visited the dangers facing England on Wednesday; future managerial ambitions; a bewildering final year with Aston Villa before finding new contentment on Teesside; and whether academy scholars should clean first- teamers' boots or be brought up in splendid isolation. There was even implied criticism of Sven Goran Eriksson for ringing too many changes in friendly matches such as last month's against Australia: "I don't think it helps. The more you can play together, the better.'' But the topic that kept recurring was his own place in the scheme of things amid the passing of time.

Having first been called to the colours in 1995 as something of a late developer at 25, he is now in his fifth tournament and has found appearances at the finals of the previous four to be a tale of diminishing returns: playing every minute of Euro 96, right to England's last kick (his failed penalty in the semi-final shoot-out against Germany), then one start at the World Cup two years later, 10 minutes at Euro 2000, and not a kick in Japan last summer.

Feeling "quite low'' returning home from the land of the falling Sven, he was revived by a starting place in the first two internationals of the new season, only to be cast down again when Campbell came back and Jonathan Woodgate stayed in for the draw at home to Macedonia four days later. "I was disappointed to be left out, but there's nothing I can do to alter that. I asked him [Eriksson] why and he said I was still very much part of his plans. I always feel you need to ask managers, because I want to know what he wants to improve. If you don't ask maybe it's easier to leave you out. You come away from the meeting feeling no better, but at least you've asked the question.'' There was no need to ask it yesterday.

Catching the manager's eye, though, is easier when a player is constantly involved in high-profile European games with one of the bigger English clubs. Southgate would clearly have liked to join one – happy though he is at the Riverside – and it rankles that during the worst period of his stand-off with Villa two years ago they turned down a £7m bid from Chelsea, then later accepted a lower one from Middlesbrough: "It's only natural that if you're playing in the Champions' League every week, you'll be at the forefront of his [Eriksson's] mind. If you're playing for a smaller club, it's harder.

"Villa made it clear that there were certain places they wouldn't let me go, including Chelsea. It was slightly petulant and that was probably the most disappointing season of my career. But it was an experience, and you come through it a bit stronger.''

It was a compliment of sorts that even throughout that unhappy year, John Gregory not only kept him in the team but handed over the captain's armband every Saturday without a word being exchanged between them. When Southgate talks of taking a piece of every manager he has worked with into his own future coaching career, it will be interesting to see which of Gregory's qualities are evident – and, indeed, which of Eriksson's, whose calm demeanour he admires.

What he will insist on is players having their say, which he feels the new generation are reluctant to do at either club or international level. "It's the way players of my era were brought up, but you notice increasingly that the younger players are maybe not brought up that way. Players like Paul Ince would turn round and bollock me, but a lot of players can't deal with that.

"Characters are changing. There's a danger that in developing youngsters via the academies, where they don't have to clean our boots any more, they don't get that interaction with the first team. Maybe it teaches them the game properly, but does it develop them as individuals? And breed the characters?''

It is all a question of balance, a quality that Southgate regards highly. "There's a danger in always looking for the next bright young thing. If you want to win things, you need a lot of players aged around 27 and 28. I don't think you can plan too far ahead. The future never comes, does it?''

So despite seeing all those baby faces around him, he is not yet ready to settle for his pipe and slippers, drawing inspiration instead from the man who once starred with him in a pizza advert for penalty shankers: "Stuart Pearce retired twice and came back into it. I just hope I don't have to wait until I'm 38. But England's still a massive part of my life, and I wouldn't want to walk away from that.''