Lord Chancellor cool on increase of elected peers

The Lord Chancellor signalled his determination last night not to become the scapegoat for the Government's turmoil over reforming the House of Lords when he insisted the unpopular proposals had been a collective ministerial decision.

Lord Irvine of Lairg also put himself on a collision course with Robin Cook, the Leader of the Commons, over the proportion of elected members who should sit in a new-style second chamber.

The Government's original proposal to have a chamber with only 20 per cent of members elected – a figure about to be increased by Tony Blair – ran into a swell of opposition from Labour backbenchers who wanted a bigger proportion.

Denying the White Paper on reforming the Lords was a "dead duck", he said the 20 per cent figure had been reached by a cabinet committee including Mr Cook, as well as John Prescott, the Deputy Prime Minister, and David Blunkett, the Home Secretary.

Lord Irvine gave a cool response to suggestions from Mr Cook that the Government had to find a new "centre of gravity" over the proportion of elected members in the chamber. He told the Commons Public Administration Committee that a "bidding process" had started to produce a consensus over the percentage.

He said: "I think that type of approach is really being in denial about the dynamics of the relationship between the House of Commons and the House of Lords."

Lord Irvine made clear that, unlike some cabinet colleagues, including Mr Cook, who were arguing for a substantially elected house, he was strongly opposed to the proportion being much above the mooted 20 per cent. He was not "unmovable" on the subject but said the agreed figure ought to be "very substantially below 50 per cent".

He said: "To go much above a particular percentage, and 20 per cent is what the White Paper arrived at, and to maintain ... you will not over time alter the balance of powers between the Houses, is simply to be in denial."

In clashes with Labour members of the committee, he denied that a majority of the party wanted an elected second chamber. John Lyons, MP for Strathkelvin and Bearsden, retorted: "I have a feeling you would bet on Bolton Wanderers to win the Premiership."

Gordon Prentice, a strong supporter of a fully elected upper house, told him the Government was "in a mess" on the issue. He said: "I don't know whether to call you Lord Chancellor or Derry, but you are a product of patronage yourself – you sit on the woolsack because of a decision by a certain TB."