Judd Apatow: ‘Trump is not intellectually capable of leading our country’

Judd Apatow isn’t what you’d call a pessimist. Cinema after the coronavirus pandemic? The industry will rise again. Comedy in the age of wokeness? That shouldn’t be a hindrance. But ask him about Donald Trump and that buoyancy deflates. “The US president is, I believe, a malignant narcissist,” says the man behind films such as Knocked Up and This is 40. “He doesn’t have compassion. He is not intellectually capable of leading our country and he is not emotionally fit to run our country and everything that’s happening is the natural result of that.”

We’re speaking over the phone ahead of the release of Apatow’s latest film, The King of Staten Island. It’s less than two weeks after Trump threatened to send the military to end a wave of protests against racism and police brutality in America. And it’s one day after the same president peddled a baseless conspiracy theory about a 75-year-old protester who was filmed falling to the ground and bleeding from his head, after being shoved by police.

“It’s a tragedy that somehow he was elected,” Apatow continues of Trump. “There was a lot of voter suppression involved in his election,” which is something the filmmaker is also vocal about on Twitter. “To this day,” he continues, “we’re still not sure exactly what happened. I’m hopeful that nobody new has decided they love him. And when people get to go to the polls [in November 2020], he will be removed.”

There’s a frustration in Apatow’s voice. Outrage, even. Generally, though, he’s conversational and relaxed; maybe a little reserved, only occasionally emerging from beneath a showbiz veneer.

And who could blame him? The 52-year-old has been a part of the comedy circuit since his teens, and it’s hard to overstate how much the American comedy landscape has been shaped by his work. The director, screenwriter, producer and comedian has helped bolster the careers of – among others – Steve Carell (The 40-Year-Old Virgin), Lena Dunham (Girls), Amy Schumer (Trainwreck), Kumail Nanjiani (The Big Sick) and Freaks and Geeks stars Linda Cardellini, Seth Rogen, Jason Segel, Busy Philipps and James Franco.

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The latest beneficiary of the Judd Apatow treatment is Pete Davidson. The 26-year-old SNL star, who has made headlines over the years for reasons ranging from his love life (he was briefly engaged to Ariana Grande) to his openness about mental health, stars in The King of Staten Island, a bittersweet coming-of-age comedy drama directed and co-written by Apatow.

The King of Staten Island is largely inspired by Davidson’s personal life. Scott, the film’s protagonist, is a twenty-something slacker struggling to cope with the loss of his firefighter father; the real Davidson lost his dad, firefighter Scott Matthew Davidson, in the 9/11 attacks. It manages to be both funny and sensitive and – somewhat of a feat in the contemporary movie industry, in a film co-written by men – tackles male-female relationships in a way that doesn’t feel sexist or cheap. The female characters – Scott’s mother Margie (Marisa Tomei) and his best-friend-slash-love-interest Kelsey (Bel Powley) – are fully fledged, with aspirations of their own and a take-no-s*** approach to life that manages to ring true.

In that regard, the film reflects its director’s conviction that there is still ample room for comedy, even in an age when comedians are likely to suffer blowback if they are found to have said the wrong things.

“I feel like an enormous amount of people are doing remarkably strong work and do not appear to be holding back,” says Apatow. “There are people who are very sensitive to certain types of humour, and there are other people who like things that are more shocking and there is no arbiter who gets to decide what is appropriate. So it’s all very messy, and that scares people in comedy because there’s really no way to know if you’ve made some sort of error. Or you think you didn’t make an error, but maybe somebody else is offended.” Citing his comedian friend Colin Quinn, he adds: “In these times when you make the joke, you just need to mean it. You can’t be sloppy about your thinking.”

One of Apatow’s longtime collaborators, Lena Dunham (Apatow was a executive producer on Girls), has faced a number of criticisms over the years, from allegations of racism to a furore after she publicly doubted a woman who had come forward with an accusation of sexual assault (Dunham has expressed regret for doing so). Nevertheless, Apatow, who describes Dunham as “one of the most brilliant people I’ve ever been around”, still awards her his full support.

“I think she completely changed television with Girls,” he says. “There was no show like that before, and as a result there are way more female showrunners and a lot more very open, brave, daring television, from many different communities that didn’t have those breaks. There are other people responsible, but she was a big part of changing that landscape. I think she’s a great person. When you’re in the public eye, people try to look for mistakes. And once in a while, they’re going to find one – with everybody. That’s just a part of it that we’re all adjusting to.”

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Speaking of adjustment, 12 years have passed since Katherine Heigl had the temerity to describe Knocked Up, a romantic comedy directed, written and co-produced by Apatow, as “a little sexist”. The comments caused a backlash, and contributed to Heigl’s reputation for being allegedly difficult to work with. Now, Apatow is clear about his own feelings on Heigl’s criticism – “I didn’t see it coming and it hurt my feelings” – but equally clear about the actor’s right to speak out.

“I think that everyone should be allowed to criticise anything. That’s how everything works: stand-up comedians, movies, television. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Sometimes it just crosses over into this other thing, which is, should people be allowed to work or should they be cancelled if people disagree with something that someone said or made? People have always had debates about the quality of work and what it means, and that’s good, unless it somehow turns toxic in some way.”

The King of Staten Island was originally destined for a theatrical release that would have positioned it as one of the first big comedies of the summer. But the coronavirus pandemic shut down cinemas across the world, meaning that the film is being released digitally instead. This could have been viewed as a setback, but Apatow is confident movies will survive – even if the world’s largest cinema chain, AMC Theatres, has expressed doubts about whether it can remain in business.

“There’ll be a vaccine or treatments which make the coronavirus much less dangerous. But before that happens, we all have to be very careful. It will be very difficult to make movies. It definitely will be different. But as soon as people are told it’s safe,” he adds, that optimism abiding, “they will be as populous as ever.”

‘The King of Staten Island’ is available to watch on VOD now