Jon Bernthal interview: The Punisher actor talks Shot Caller, The Walking Dead, and authenticity

By all accounts, Jon Bernthal has had an incredibly exciting year. First, there were minor roles in Edgar Wright’s Baby Driver and Taylor Sheridan’s debut Wind River. Then, the actor took centre stage for Marvel’s The Punisher. And to cap off this turbulent 2017, Bernthal stars alongside Game of Thrones’s Nikolaj Coster-Waldau in the thriller Shot Caller.

Speaking on the telephone with The Independent earlier this year, the actor spoke candidly about researching his role, meeting real prisoners and spending time with criminals. Along with discussing the film, Bernthal also dived into some previous projects, including The Walking Dead, which ended up changing his life. Read the full Q&A below.

Shot Caller seems very timely, questioning how prison institutionalises people. Was that something that attracted you to the project?

I suppose so. I’ve worked with [director] Ric Roman Waugh before on a film called Snitch. I enjoyed working with him – he strives for authenticity in films. They’re incredibly well researched. When he made a film called Felon, he worked as a parole officer and got to know the prison system very, very well. He can grant unbelievable access both inside the prisons and to the prisoners. I knew I would be able to achieve a level of authenticity with the character and my research would be able to be complete. I was very grateful to some of the people I got to meet in that process.

I read before how you sometimes get so into a role you even leave the set as the character. Did that happen here?

Yeah, a little bit. Those tattoos don’t come off. You go around with them. We shot a bulk of the film at a real-life maximum security prison, with real prisoners. That was an unbelievable opportunity for me. Through contacts with Ric, I met guys who were being hunted on the street, who were hiding. I get really close with them and learn a first-hand account about – not just the stakes they went through – but to get a first-hand account of their behaviour, the protocol of what that life is like.

Maybe I’m a wimp, but that would be relatively scary meeting these types of people.

It’s not for everybody, but I’m really attracted to that. Just because you’re worried doesn’t mean you’re a wimp and vice versa. For me, this job, what I do, I strive for authenticity. Not just for the movie watchers but for people who the story is about. During Fury, I hope people who are tank operators would look at that and relate. When I play a small-town police officer in a Georgia town, I want those police officers to buy that. What that requires is being granted access to the people who are like that. Some of the best relationships I’ve made in my career are with those people filmmakers bring on board, to teach you the tricks of the trade. There are cops in LA that I’m still super close with, a best friend who’s a Navy seal who I worked with. When somebody opens up their life like that, it’s unbelievably humbling.

How can you get time to meet all these people when you’ve got so much work on at the moment. This year you’ve done five films plus The Punisher TV series.

I also have three young kids! I’m enormously busy, no question about it. I do this for a living and I’ve built a home from it. My mantra is ‘be where you are while you’re there’. So, when I’m making a movie, I’m in 100 per cent. I don’t stop for anything. I don’t take breaks, get drunk, go to bars. I’m packing things in the whole time. When there are people to meet to build that authenticity, I’m there. Same when I’m with my family. There is no cell phone, no meetings, half-in, half-out, I’m with them 100 per cent. That’s the only way I know how to live right now. My own personal happiness is dictated by how much I’m with that philosophy. If I’m not living that, I’m unhappy.

Over this year, you’ve just been cropping up places, for instance with a brief role in Wind River. When I saw you appeared there, I immediately thought you were the villain! Apart from The Punisher, though, you haven’t really had a leading role.

To be honest, and this isn’t a bullshit answer, I’m completely unconcerned by that. What I got to do in Wind River, in Sicario – where I pop up for just one scene – I’m just as grateful for that as Frank Castle in The Punisher. I came from the Moscow Art Theatre School where they coined the phrase ‘there’s no small part for a small actor’. What I love about these small parts is they really have a sense of history to them, a sense of you can believe this character existed before the scene, and will exist after – unless they get killed! These characters really add to the tapestry of a film, and if you can bring something authentic you make the world seem real. With Wind River, I feel they could have made an entire movie about that character, those motivations. One of my favourite movies of all time is Silence of the Lambs. What Ted Levine did with his portrayal of Buffalo Bill, there wasn’t much screen time but it was absolutely haunting. Everyone talks about Anthony Hopkins in that film, which was obviously great, but what Ted did, he created the most horrifying character in the history of film in five or six minutes on film. If I can do that… I definitely don’t make choices based on becoming a leading man. I just want to work with the best people. When you bring up Wind River, that’s Taylor Sheridan, who wrote Sicario. I respect him so much as a writer. Of course, I would jump at the chance to be in his film.

Have you turned down any of those roles that could have taken your career that much further?

There have been some things that would have been splashier, bigger projects career-wise. There’s nothing I have done that I regret, nothing I wish I had. Honestly, I’m not here to make a huge splash. One of the drawbacks of playing The Punisher would be the high exposure. There’s a real downside to that as an actor. The fact you saw Wind River and knew that was me, I’m grateful, but there’s something magic about being the guy who can disappear on screen. You seeing Wind River and believing I was the villain was exactly what Sheridan wanted, taking the audience on that journey within 10 minutes, turning into a good guy. Having those splashier roles can be the enemy sometimes. You have to reinvent and challenge yourself.

I spoke to [Daredevil actor] Charlie Cox earlier this year for The Defenders, who said he was very comfortable with his level of fame at the moment, not necessarily being bombarded on the streets by fans. I imagine you must feel similar?

In my real life, I’m very comfortable with people, that people come up to me in the street. When somebody comes up to me and says they love my work, that really touches me. Hopefully, I can have times where I check myself as this knucklehead, asshole kid from DC, and now these people are buying me a drink. That’s incredible, right? What I don’t want is to just be known. I want it to be about the work, not people going ‘hey, there’s that guy’ or ‘there’s so-and-so’. I don’t want to be The Fonz, that’s the enemy of our work, when people have preconceived notions. I’m definitely not worried about people coming up to me though.

Looking back on something like The Walking Dead – arguably your breakout. Do you keep up with the show?

I have to be honest, I haven’t kept up with that show. But it marked a real high point, not just in my career but in my life. I got engaged around then, I got married just after season one, had my son during season two. That group of people, that original core group, it was a very humble beginning. We did not know what we were getting into. We all believed in the script and dived in with everything we had. It wasn’t a show with a big budget. Who knew it would be what it would be? That group got unbelievably close and are still the group of actors I’m by far closest with, than anything else I’ve ever done. We’re part of each other’s lives, each other’s families. To play a character with a real beginning and end, on a show that popular, that was an unbelievable part. It wasn’t like I was inundated with offers after, but that was the experience that changed my life. I started getting into rooms, getting opportunities that were completely different to what I had done. It wasn’t even like my first gig. I’ll always be grateful to them for hiring me.

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That show set the tone for some of your characters ever since. How do you feel about that?

What I liked about Shane and that part was you couldn’t pin him down. There were really conflicting emotions at hand. He wasn’t a villain or good guy. There were real reasons and motivation behind the sometimes deplorable things he did. He really lived by a code. He was the first guy who really discovered what living in that world really meant. I do want that with all my characters. The kind of people who are one way then become someone else, bold enough to turn their back on the audience. I loved with Shane that one week you could be with him and the next against him. If there’s that richness to any of the characters I play, I find myself very lucky.

Even with Shot Caller, you play someone the audience believes to be one thing and then turns into another.

That was the great thing about this film, there were real motivations. The film took these prison types and reminded us they have families, mums and dads, girlfriends and wives, loving them the same way we do. That was a great little touch with this character.

One last question on The Punisher. What do you hope to bring to the character, if you can say anything?

You know what Marvel is like, but I’ll say it’s a real honour to play the part. I feel responsible for the members of law enforcement, the military, the comic book audience who this character means so much to. I’m really nervous about it. I really hope we got it right. I tried to play him a certain way and I hope it resonates.